a question

[Outcast]

Actually, I guess I shouldn't have written that post - I apologize to everyone for writing that post - I usually almost never talk about these kinds of topics, but I guess because it is always in the back of my mind, as soon as someone else brings up anything that has to do with death, the occult, the spirit world, dead bodies, religion, spiritual beliefs, etc., I automatically want to jump in on the conversation, forgetting that my views & experiences on these topics usually make people feel either uncomfortable or depressed, everyone from evangelical Christians, athiests, witches, Hare Krishnas, Jehova's Witnesses, occultists, agnostics, etc. - as soon as I start getting into the complexities of my views, they autimatically don;t want to hear it - so I always try not to discuss them but every once in a while if someone mentions something, I slip & I forget start going on & on about it. I apologize to everyone.

I don't think there is reason to apologize. I like hearing different opinions and its interesting subject matter. I just stated how ifeel about that subject today.

[Johnny000000]

I don't think there is reason to apologize. I like hearing different opinions and its interesting subject matter. I just stated how ifeel about that subject today.

Thanks, Sod.

 

Off topic - I don 't know if you saw it yet but in the Morrissey thread I posted a Stones clip for you - if you get a chance, you may wanna check it out - The Stones are jamming at the Beacon with Buddy Guy - it's a great performance if you dig the Blues - & Keith is playing his favorite guitar & at the end of the performance, he's so overwhelmed by Buddy Guy's musicianship that he spontaneously gives the guitar to him as a gift.

 

Have a good one.

[Outcast]

 

Thanks, Sod.

 

Off topic - I don 't know if you saw it yet but in the Morrissey thread I posted a Stones clip for you - if you get a chance, you may wanna check it out - The Stones are jamming at the Beacon with Buddy Guy - it's a great performance if you dig the Blues - & Keith is playing his favorite guitar & at the end of the performance, he's so overwhelmed by Buddy Guy's musicianship that he spontaneously gives the guitar to him as a gift.

 

Have a good one.

Hi John, I did watch it. Great clip!! I think small type venues like that are where the stones really shine.

[spankbri]

Yeah Johnny - every so often when I'm feeling complacent in my own thoughts and views of the world and convinced that everyone probably sees things more or less the way I do, someone opens up with their deepest thoughts and I realize just how complicated the human mind is, and how much variety is out there. In other words, I don't know $#@& about the human condition. I'm sure if I posted my deepest thoughts people would be scratching their heads about how i make it through each day, but it all feels perfectly fine and reasonable to me.

 

So no worries about posting your inner depths. We're all oddballs in this world, and it's good to be reminded of it.

[Mistress Haru]

Actually, I guess I shouldn't have written that post - I apologize to everyone for writing that post - I usually almost never talk about these kinds of topics, but I guess because it is always in the back of my mind, as soon as someone else brings up anything that has to do with death, the occult, the spirit world, dead bodies, religion, spiritual beliefs, etc., I automatically want to jump in on the conversation, forgetting that my views & experiences on these topics usually make people feel either uncomfortable or depressed, everyone from evangelical Christians, athiests, witches, Hare Krishnas, Jehova's Witnesses, occultists, agnostics, etc. - as soon as I start getting into the complexities of my views, they autimatically don;t want to hear it - so I always try not to discuss them but every once in a while if someone mentions something, I slip & I forget start going on & on about it. I apologize to everyone.

 

It's funny how close to themselves people keep their beliefs of the supernatural. I'm always surprised at the number of stories people have about ghosts, the dead, spirits that take serious rapport to begin those conversations. I think in America it becomes very taboo to talk about the supernatural because reasonable, educated adults aren't supposed to believe in things that give you the screaming mimis. Then again, these are the people that end up very very dead in my favorite horror movies.

 

In response to your views on death, do you think they changed because you did find happiness? That the unknown becomes much less desirable once you enjoy the life you have?

 

You talked about potentially offending people of all different backgrounds with your perception of death; I wonder what makes talking about death so deeply personal? Is it because nobody can be an authority on death?

[Outcast]

Since this thread has become so philosophical ------[media=]

[/media]

[Johnny000000]

It's funny how close to themselves people keep their beliefs of the supernatural. I'm always surprised at the number of stories people have about ghosts, the dead, spirits that take serious rapport to begin those conversations. I think in America it becomes very taboo to talk about the supernatural because reasonable, educated adults aren't supposed to believe in things that give you the screaming mimis. Then again, these are the people that end up very very dead in my favorite horror movies.

 

In response to your views on death, do you think they changed because you did find happiness? That the unknown becomes much less desirable once you enjoy the life you have?

 

You talked about potentially offending people of all different backgrounds with your perception of death; I wonder what makes talking about death so deeply personal? Is it because nobody can be an authority on death?

 

Hello Mistress Haru, How are You? I hope You (& Your beautiful feet & those new black heels) are safe & sound from the storm.

 

These are excellent questions & I definitely want to answer them - but I want to answer them when my attention span is a little sharper & my thoughts are more collected - because this subject can be very complex especially for me

 

Because what's unusual about me is that I separate my belief sytem into 2 different categories - 1 - what I believe is true or not true & 2 - what I want to believe - & some of the things that fall into category 1, things that I believe are true are things that I do not want to be true & have spent many years studying very intensely, trying to disprove and / or debunk my own beliefs & supernatural experiences & even though I'm not the most educated or well-read person, I have had many debates on these topics with many people, including very well educated & successful people who are much smarter than me, who I respect their views, (it seems that well educated people love a good debate, especially about topics like spiritual beliefs so it's very easy to start a debate with them), but usually, I'm able to stump them, but the unusual thing about me is that I want to lose the debates - I don't want to stump them - I want to be proven wrong.

 

And You are absolutely right - it does seem that society believes that most well educated people are not supposed to be superstitious - that most superstitious people are either uneducated or raised from a very early age to believe what they believe - I think that little by little, we're starting to see that while many well educated & successful people are atheists or agnostics, etc., there are also many well educated & successful people who are very religious or are even involved in the occult, etc. & also some people's views are shaped by their experiences - like for example let's say someone is an atheist for 20 years & then all of a sudden witnesses something supernatural that they have never seen before, etc.

 

As always, I'm rambling on & on - sorry - I just meant to write a short post but as always - I can't shut my piehole for 2 seconds - yap, yap, yap, I never stop - I'll get back to You on this question - thanks.

[Johnny000000]

Hi John, I did watch it. Great clip!! I think small type venues like that are where the stones really shine.

 

Yeah, I thought Buddy Guy really gave a great performance & great guitar work & the Stones looked like they really loved playing with him - I've seen so many great concerts at the Beacon Theatre, especially Blues artists, including Buddy Guy - he was definitely one of the earliest wild guitar players in the 50's.

[Johnny000000]

Scary Stuff

 

Mistress Haru: How are You?

 

The reason why my views of death offend people is because it's not good news - I've spent many years trying to prove myself wrong - I would love for someone to prove me wrong.

 

My beliefs have changed over the years but in the last 5 or 6 years, they haven't changed much because it's getting harder & harder to disprove my theories.

 

I never planned to discussed this kind of stuff on the forum because I figured it wasn't appropriate but I guess when the phobia thread was created, it seems hard to discuss that topic without talking about scary things.

 

At this point in my life, I believe 3 things:

 

1 - that because of some of the things that I have witnessed when I was involved with the occult - I can't deny that there is a spirit world.

2 - that the supernatural things that I witnessed are so complex, that even when I try to explain it to people, most people can't grasp it - it seems to

match up with what's written in the Bible - I believe that the Bible is true - but I don't think that I'm saved.

3 - Years ago, because I had witnessed these things, I tried to look to the Bible to get answers but discovered something else.

The Bible has a hidden message in it. Most people read verses in the Bible out of context but reading versus in the Bible & comparing them

to other verses creates a different message and the more you read it, things start to connect into a very complex formula that is so frightening.

Until someone can prove this theory wrong, I believe that with the exception of a few people, maybe 5% of the human race, I believe that the rest of

the human race, around 95% may have been created for Hell.

I believe that the Bible was written for a few reasons - 1 was to convict the human race - when a person hears the word or reads the Bible, they are

no longer able to claim ignorance of the law & they are condemned so when you hear someone preaching in the subway, it may not be to save you

but to actually condemn you. 2 - The Bible surves as a rulebook for God's elect. 3- I think that maybe, the reason that Jesus to the world was to

purchase the elect & to convict the rest of the world. I think that Jesus may have come to the world to convict the worls and sned it the human race

to hell.

Also, it says in the Bible that God will put the world under a delusion so that they believe fasle teachings.

I also believe that God puts fake eveidence of evolution to fool people into believeing false teachings.

It seems that God wants to condemn the human race.

You hear atheists say all the time, if there is a God , then why is there so much suffering in the world, why would an all loving God want to let

people suffer. but most atheists don't seem to know the versus that well, despite being very well educated people because when I read the Bible.

When God & Jesus speak in the Bible, they speak in a way where many times they leave a lot of imformation out. They don't give all the detalis so

when you read a verse, it is very easy to assume that it means one thing when it can mean something completely different.

I believe that God speaks in a way so that only a few people will understand what he is saying.

It's probably why the revelation is called the Revelation - God likes to keep some information hidden.

I

So I fear that with the exception of very few people, about a million from each nation, everyone from the first person born to the last is either in hell or on theri way to hell.

 

So when I see a dead body, it's not the dead body that freaks me out - it's that I'm afraid that person is in hell screaming.

Although I try not to think about it too much, it's in the back of my mind.

 

Here's where it get;s complex.

 

You have Evangelical Christians that reject the belief of predestination & Calvinists that believe that God already decided who is saved & who isn't long before the world was ever created.

 

The Evangelical Christians say that they have verses that disprove Calvinism & the Calvinists say they have verses that disprove Eveangelicalism or Arminianism.

 

The problem is that the verses that the Evangelical Christians use work out of context with other versus - by themselves it does seem that anyone has the choice to find salvation if they want it but when it is compared with other verses in the Bible, not only does the theory of Evangelicalism start to fall apart, at least to the best of my understanding, but also seems to prove the Calvinists theory to be true.

 

And I believe that the Bible is written this way deliberately so that only a few will understand the truth.

 

The verses that the Calvinists use, to the best of my ability to comprehend, prove the predestination theory whether they are taken out of context with other verses or compared with other verses.

 

I'm a little rusty at this stuff because I stopped researching this stuff about 5 years ago but to the best of my memory, this is part of what is shaping what I believe.

 

So that's my theory - I know it's depressing.

 

But I'm not one of these people who thinks they know everything or thinks they're right about everything - I wanne be proven wrong - I hate believeing this - it drives me crazy to think that maybe, everybody I know & don't know that has passed away is screaming in hell - sometimes I wish I had never gotten involved in the occult - maybe ignorance is really bliss.

 

It's a scary thought because if you start to believe it - who do you go to? where can you run - anyone you talk to - they're probably in the same position as you - the whole world may be helpless.

 

This stuff sounds insane & when I first heard theories like this - I was like this is nuts - it wasn;t until I did further research that I started finding more evidence of these theories & it was a nightmare for me.

 

Also, many people claim that man wrote the Bible, that they believe that it wasn't written by God - I believe that it was recorded by man but written by God because when you really read it closely, you can see that there is no man that make up a story like this - also, when you read the different books that are recorded by different men, you can see that God speaks the same way.

 

So as you can see, most people don;t lkike hearing this stuff - i don;t ennjoy it - I just wish I can live my life & not have to worry about this stuff - I just wanna live in peace & try to enjoy myself but this stuff is in the back of my mind.

[Johnny000000]

Also, most people would say, how can this be true, Jesus healed the sick & helped people - but if you look very closely, at least to the best of my understanding, there were certain people that Jesus was very glad to talk to & help & other people that asked Jesus for help & Jesus did help them but He didn't seem glad about it or very friendly - I believe that it's probably because He knows who is the lect & who isn't.

 

He would preach to people and then say later on that they are spiritually dead & that it's impossible for them to believe - why would He preach to people knowing that it is impossible for them to believe or understand or be saved, to the best of my understanding, He preached to them to convict the world.

 

People seem to have given Jesus this image of being a peace loving pacifist hippie with long hair who has nothing but love in His heart & cries for the sinners & wants to heal & help people but if you look very closely, he's only crying for His elect - in my opinion, Jesus is very scary - the things that He says throughout the Bible are so frightening - He's not crying for the sinners - He says that He will mock people when they pray to him & laugh at their calamity & when He finally throws the world into Hell, Him & his elect will be laughing. He says that he will laugh at those who hate him. Does this sound like a peace loving long haired hippie to you? Not to me. It sounds like a very scary God. Anyway - that's my theory - hopefully I didn't offend anyone - like I said - I don;t feel like I know everything - actually, I'm waiting patiently for someone to say, Johnny, look, you're way off - & I can prove it - I wanna be wrong - I don;t enjoy this theory at all.

[Mistress Zhao]

Johnny,

I quite enjoy your posts that have to do with paranormal events in your life, and seeing as how you seem to attract the, you could really even start a blog of your own about it! I would be your #1 reader

Being a major fan of the everything you mentioned, I've been told that some of my posts scare people away. I guess I take it to the extreme sometimes, for the sake of my own amusement. But reigning my own darkness in is like only looking into half a mirror.

As grim as your belief concerning God from the Bible is, I have to disagree with most of it. But ultimately, your belief is your reality, so mote it be. I'm proudly pagan, and as much as I believe in a universal force, I do not believe it is malevolent or tricky.

 

and Spankbri, for once, your sympathetic view is refreshing. We are all indeed oddballs in this world. With the wonderful internet, now we can share all of our oddball details and not feel so alone. I count that as one of the biggest blessings of modern technology, the removal of totally isolating viewpoints.

 

 

 

Actually, I guess I shouldn't have written that post - I apologize to everyone for writing that post - I usually almost never talk about these kinds of topics, but I guess because it is always in the back of my mind, as soon as someone else brings up anything that has to do with death, the occult, the spirit world, dead bodies, religion, spiritual beliefs, etc., I automatically want to jump in on the conversation, forgetting that my views & experiences on these topics usually make people feel either uncomfortable or depressed, everyone from evangelical Christians, athiests, witches, Hare Krishnas, Jehova's Witnesses, occultists, agnostics, etc. - as soon as I start getting into the complexities of my views, they autimatically don;t want to hear it - so I always try not to discuss them but every once in a while if someone mentions something, I slip & I forget start going on & on about it. I apologize to everyone.

Yeah Johnny - every so often when I'm feeling complacent in my own thoughts and views of the world and convinced that everyone probably sees things more or less the way I do, someone opens up with their deepest thoughts and I realize just how complicated the human mind is, and how much variety is out there. In other words, I don't know $#@& about the human condition. I'm sure if I posted my deepest thoughts people would be scratching their heads about how i make it through each day, but it all feels perfectly fine and reasonable to me.

 

So no worries about posting your inner depths. We're all oddballs in this world, and it's good to be reminded of it.

[Johnny000000]

Since this thread has become so philosophical ------[media=]

[/media]

 

Wow - I haven't seen that in decades. - so funny - I love Monty Python.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTXiqKGFNso

[Stinky O'Toole]

Hi Johnny,

Very interesting post. You are quite correct, there is a spiritual world and I have no doubt at all that dabbling in the occult you have seen much evidence of it!

Whether Calvinists have it right, or Evangelicals do, is moot. Whether you are predetermined for salvation or not is not important. The fact is, you yourself Johnny have the opportunity right now to accept Jesus as your Savior. That, even Calvinists agree, is what is needed for your salvation. Without Him, you have no chance. Like you said, you have read the Scriptures, so you can no longer claim ignorance of the law.

Fear not - fear is from the enemy. Our Father is a loving God, He creates because He loves. It is beyond me, and I assume beyond most mortals, to understand Divine Will. But you don't need to fear being separated from our Father for eternity. You don't need to fear damnation.

[Johnny000000]

Also, Mistress Haru, I want to apologize for all of those typing errors in those last few posts - I think my attention span was a little distracted from everything that was going on last week (I feel so bad for those people in NJ & Staten Island & anyone else who was severely affected by that storm) & also, I had stopped researching on that topic for a while so I was having a little difficulty trying to remember everything & condensing it into as short of a post as possible.

 

What's also scary is that there was one piece that has been missing from this puzzle - the one thing that I was hoping would make my theory fall apart & recently discovered the last piece not too long ago but then I forgot it but now I remember it again & unfortunately it seems to prove my theory even more & it seems to almost complete this horrifying puzzle - If you really want to hear it, let me know & I'll tell you what it is - it's a little too complex for me to understand fully but it seems to fit perfectly into this scary formula.

[Johnny000000]

Johnny,

I quite enjoy your posts that have to do with paranormal events in your life, and seeing as how you seem to attract the, you could really even start a blog of your own about it! I would be your #1 reader

Being a major fan of the everything you mentioned, I've been told that some of my posts scare people away. I guess I take it to the extreme sometimes, for the sake of my own amusement. But reigning my own darkness in is like only looking into half a mirror.

As grim as your belief concerning God from the Bible is, I have to disagree with most of it. But ultimately, your belief is your reality, so mote it be. I'm proudly pagan, and as much as I believe in a universal force, I do not believe it is malevolent or tricky.

 

and Spankbri, for once, your sympathetic view is refreshing. We are all indeed oddballs in this world. With the wonderful internet, now we can share all of our oddball details and not feel so alone. I count that as one of the biggest blessings of modern technology, the removal of totally isolating viewpoints.

Thank You so much Mistress Zhao, the most beautiful Women on the planet with the most beautiful feet ever - it means everything to me that you enjoyed the posts that I have written about, regarding the supernatural - I was a little concerned that people would get the impression that I was a Debbie Downer or a killjoy who thinks about this stuff 24/7 because most of the time I don't think about it - so I'm glad You told me- thank You so much.

 

And I am so glad that You disagree with me - although I rarely think about it anymore, - when I did research this topic, it really scared me so much I had to stop researching it so I would never want You to experience that kind of fright - plus I know that You're an extremely, extremely intelligent person - I picked up on it a long time ago - especially when You get in depth on a particular thread - Whatever Your take is on my beliefs, I'm sure it would blow me away.

 

One thing I should mention is that although I have talked about about a few of my supernatural experiences in this forum, like ghosts, etc. - there were many other supernatural experiences that I didin't mention because they were too frightening to mention - way more frightening than anything I have mentioned.

 

I'm falling asleep - I gotta sign off.

[Manpeach]

Hi Johnny

 

I had to read your thread several time to grasp where you are on this.

You are carrying the weight of the human race on your shoulders. The system that forms our universe is far too complex to be figured out by mere mortals.

 

But it does make for interesting discussion. So here are my 2 cents.

 

I believe the bible was written by man, as a way to unite and control the population. Many of the stories are intriguing, motivating, disturbing, threatening and downright scary. It was well crafted in its vagueness and complexity and many suggested books for the bible were edited from the final copy when it was originally assembled.

 

There are positive and negative forces, call them what you will, that push and pull at our subconscious. You seem to be focused on the negative. 95% of us going to hell because we couldn’t understand the “truth” thrown at us by a preacher in the subway? I don’t accept the point of that. I'd rather look to a comforting end that greets you when you return with a “ You gave it a try, better life next time. Go sit over there and relax for awhile”.

 

Life is a journey we are all travelling and will come to an end someday for all of us. When I look at the variety of the human condition around the world, the one common denominator is the personnel relationships we have with each other.

Put the bible down, stop focusing on being “saved”, take care of yourself, do no harm, help where you can, enjoy the day, love the people you are close to.

 

Best of life to you

 

Bradley

[Outcast]

I never would want to change someone's beliefs on religious/ spiritual manners. Looking at history ,though, it seems man has a way of interpreting or even manipulating things to suit they're own agenda. Religion has done a lot of good through history and they're are many decent religious people in the world. Their faith helps them and comforts them and who am I to tell them they are wrong. On theother hand, religion has caused a lot of violence and conflict in history and to this very day. The people in control use religion , wether they know it or not to control people's pocketbooks and minds. Ot comes down to power. Read 1984 when O'Brian explains to Winston Smith the ultimate goals of the "party" .Power for powers sake. Today, my version of a God or Higher Power differs greatly then when I was young. God to me is something that is so great its beyond human comprehension. It's not a bearded man on a cloud ready to smite me down because I jerked off into a sock when I was 12. That God is a creation of man that came about in Mesopotamia when monotheism started and probably resembled the rulers there at the time. Today I don't understand God and that's ok. I know that I don't know. What I do know is that in my daily affairs I try to use the golden rule. Treat others as I would like to be treated. Try to avoid trouble and show kindness as much as possible. I'm not a passivist but avoid fights as much as possible. Most fights in life ,win or lose I have nothing but regrets but anytime I was able to really help someonei have nothing but joy. So if you read this far thank you for listening to the wild ramblings of someone who is obviously insane

[Johnny000000]

[Johnny000000]

Hi Johnny,

Very interesting post. You are quite correct, there is a spiritual world and I have no doubt at all that dabbling in the occult you have seen much evidence of it!

Whether Calvinists have it right, or Evangelicals do, is moot. Whether you are predetermined for salvation or not is not important. The fact is, you yourself Johnny have the opportunity right now to accept Jesus as your Savior. That, even Calvinists agree, is what is needed for your salvation. Without Him, you have no chance. Like you said, you have read the Scriptures, so you can no longer claim ignorance of the law.

Fear not - fear is from the enemy. Our Father is a loving God, He creates because He loves. It is beyond me, and I assume beyond most mortals, to understand Divine Will. But you don't need to fear being separated from our Father for eternity. You don't need to fear damnation.

 

Hey Stinky O'Toole - How are you? Thanks so much for your post. I really appreciate it. After realizing a few years ago that there has been this Bible war going on across the centuries, maybe even as early as Augustine in the 1st century, between the calvinists / pedestination Christians & the Evangelical / Arminian Christians, even though my beliefs have been leaning towards predestination fearing that the calvinists may be right, my heart has always been on the side of the Evangelical / Arminian Christians & I realize that most calvinists are very mean & nasty to everyone, claiming that they are one of God's elect & they laugh at everyone, saying that everyone else has nothing but darkness that awaits them & there isn't anything they can do about it & they seem to love to torment everyone, especially Evangelicals. And even though Evangelicals may not be perfect Christians, & a lot of famous preachers have given them Christians a bad image, there are a of Evangelical Christians are very nice people & really do try to live as best as they can as a Christian as well as being good to others.

 

So usually, whenever I tell an Evangelical Christian about Calvinism, they usually flip out, because they think I am one of those Calvinsts that will taunt them until I explain that I'm on their side & this is not a debate for me but more of a concern. I've questioned so many Evangelicals about those verses that Calvinists are armed with & most of them respond by saying that is the great mystery between God's soverign law & man's free will.

 

In the beginning, I rejected the predestination theory & assumed that in the future as I would talk to more theologians & research it that I would learn that it was way off. It wasn;t until I was researching a few years ago that I started seeing verses over & over that discussed it & the more I researched the more verses I found. It seems like in the Bible that so many men lose their grace. Esau for example begged with tears but never got it back. David got it back but lost a son. I always wondered if that son that he lost was saved or not. Most people assume Solomon was saved but I don't remember anywhere him mentioning that he was saved.

 

Also Hebrews 6:3 is avery scary verse & throughout the Bible there a so many things that can make someone lose his or her grace. So yes, you can receive grace - that's the easy part - it's holding onto it that's the hard part. the only way to be able to keep it is to be one of the elect so that God gives you whatever you need to keep your salvation - Throughout the Bible there are men who spend a lifetime trying to please God & find out at the end of their life that God took their Grace away because of a technicality & other men that are some of the worst sinners in the world who eventually become saved.

 

There is also another piece of the puzzle that I'm working on. I wondered if God doesn't lie, how can he put the world under a delusion or mislead them - he must be able to do it in a way where he can mislead people without technically lieing.

 

And I think it may be that even though a person is not one of the elect, God still commands them to follow his laws & seek him & love him with all of their heart & soul which has to be the most horrifying thing to know that you're not one of the elect & still try to live like a Christian even though you're doomed.

 

Another piece of the puzzle is that it's supposed to be a sin to influence others to sin. Like for esample, let's say you're a rock star & you write a song about sex, drugs & rock 'n' roll & it becomes a hit & there's a video, not only are both the artist the people who enjoy the song & video responsible for their sin but for every person who is enjoying this song, their sin are also on the responsibility of the artist for infuencing all of those people to sin so maybe because it's a sin to influence others to sin, maybe thats the reverse loophole that God uses to widthhold information so that he can put the world under a delusion without lieing & the world goes on & on not realizing that the earth is a Hell Farm because if there was eveidence in fron of of face that almost everyone is on their way to hell, my guess is that most people would not start families - right? If everyone in the world believed what i believed, I would think that most people would not want to have kids because who would want that kind of future for their kids? So maybe we live under this dselusion to keep the Hell Farm going & also to create thge few who are God's elect. I also have a theory that the purpose of Hel may be for the entertainment of the Elect because they seem to enjoy the horror that awaits the worlld.

 

So yes, everyone can come to God and be saved, once. Maybe twice in the old testament, like David but it's very scary.

But I just wanted to let you know that this is not a disagreement with you - I'm just trying to consider every detail possible because this is serious stuff, it's our future & there are times when I want to relax & believe there is hope but I also need to be careful that I don't confuse what believe with what I want to believe - every human being, even the smartest human being in the world (which is definitely not me) can very easily fall into that trap.

 

But I think I'm going to really explore your post because I also understand that maybe I am getting locked into a a train of thought & maybe it's preventing me from seeinng the other side - you see how complex this stuff is - it's very scary.

 

Thanks again - have a good one - I really appreciate your post & I want you to know that I wasn;t disagreeing with you, but just trying to be careful not t miss important details because it seems that these details is what made many men lose their grace in teh Bible.

[Johnny000000]

The Sounds of Hell captured on audio tape.

 

The remixed version:

 

 

 

 

The older version:

 

 

 

I'm not saying that I definitely believe this but I'm also not ruling it out right away.

There was a few people who said they had proof that it's a hoax from Vincent Price movie - that could be true - I have to listen to it again to see if I can see any connection.

I think experts should explore this area & try to make more recordings with recent & better technology to see if there really is something.

Also, I've heard a rumor that the reason Jacques Cousteau stopped diving was because he was in a cave in the ocean in the Bermuda Triangle & he heard millions of people screaming. Again, I'm not saying I definitely believe it but I'm not ruling it out either.

[Phred]

...my own darkness...

This darkness juxtaposed with your exquisite beauty is what makes you so truly incredible, Mistress Zhao.

[Big Trouble Baby]

 

 

 

Hi Johnny,

Very interesting post. You are quite correct, there is a spiritual world and I have no doubt at all that dabbling in the occult you have seen much evidence of it!

Whether Calvinists have it right, or Evangelicals do, is moot. Whether you are predetermined for salvation or not is not important. The fact is, you yourself Johnny have the opportunity right now to accept Jesus as your Savior. That, even Calvinists agree, is what is needed for your salvation. Without Him, you have no chance. Like you said, you have read the Scriptures, so you can no longer claim ignorance of the law.

Fear not - fear is from the enemy. Our Father is a loving God, He creates because He loves. It is beyond me, and I assume beyond most mortals, to understand Divine Will. But you don't need to fear being separated from our Father for eternity. You don't need to fear damnation.

 

 

Hey Stinky, I was contemplating how or even if to respond to this topic but you saved me the trouble.

[Johnny000000]

I never would want to change someone's beliefs on religious/ spiritual manners. Looking at history ,though, it seems man has a way of interpreting or even manipulating things to suit they're own agenda. Religion has done a lot of good through history and they're are many decent religious people in the world. Their faith helps them and comforts them and who am I to tell them they are wrong. On theother hand, religion has caused a lot of violence and conflict in history and to this very day. The people in control use religion , wether they know it or not to control people's pocketbooks and minds. Ot comes down to power. Read 1984 when O'Brian explains to Winston Smith the ultimate goals of the "party" .Power for powers sake. Today, my version of a God or Higher Power differs greatly then when I was young. God to me is something that is so great its beyond human comprehension. It's not a bearded man on a cloud ready to smite me down because I jerked off into a sock when I was 12. That God is a creation of man that came about in Mesopotamia when monotheism started and probably resembled the rulers there at the time. Today I don't understand God and that's ok. I know that I don't know. What I do know is that in my daily affairs I try to use the golden rule. Treat others as I would like to be treated. Try to avoid trouble and show kindness as much as possible. I'm not a passivist but avoid fights as much as possible. Most fights in life ,win or lose I have nothing but regrets but anytime I was able to really help someonei have nothing but joy. So if you read this far thank you for listening to the wild ramblings of someone who is obviously insane

Hey Sod - How are you? I did read your post - all of it & I appreciate your response - I would say that just about any time I read any of your posts regarding these topics, I agree with you pretty much all of the time. You seem like the kind of guy who likes to party, have a good time, enjoys life & does his own thing & at the same time, doesn't want to hurt others - & that's the moral code that I always lived by - I believe as long as a person isn't doing harm to anyone else, they should be allowed to live their life the way they want & do their own thing - & you also do you seem the the kind of guy everybody likes to hang out with & have a few beers & chill out - and you like to help people when you arre able to & I agree, every once in a while I am able to help someone out & it's a great feeling, especially when they understand you really want to help them - & you have excellent taste in music, cinema, TV, Women & Women's feet so even better.

 

My computer is telling me to restart - I gotta shut down - I'll continue this post in a few minutes

[Johnny000000]

I never would want to change someone's beliefs on religious/ spiritual manners. Looking at history ,though, it seems man has a way of interpreting or even manipulating things to suit they're own agenda. Religion has done a lot of good through history and they're are many decent religious people in the world. Their faith helps them and comforts them and who am I to tell them they are wrong. On theother hand, religion has caused a lot of violence and conflict in history and to this very day. The people in control use religion , wether they know it or not to control people's pocketbooks and minds. Ot comes down to power. Read 1984 when O'Brian explains to Winston Smith the ultimate goals of the "party" .Power for powers sake. Today, my version of a God or Higher Power differs greatly then when I was young. God to me is something that is so great its beyond human comprehension. It's not a bearded man on a cloud ready to smite me down because I jerked off into a sock when I was 12. That God is a creation of man that came about in Mesopotamia when monotheism started and probably resembled the rulers there at the time. Today I don't understand God and that's ok. I know that I don't know. What I do know is that in my daily affairs I try to use the golden rule. Treat others as I would like to be treated. Try to avoid trouble and show kindness as much as possible. I'm not a passivist but avoid fights as much as possible. Most fights in life ,win or lose I have nothing but regrets but anytime I was able to really help someonei have nothing but joy. So if you read this far thank you for listening to the wild ramblings of someone who is obviously insane

Hey Sod - This is Part 2 of my response to this post. I started writing it a few minutes ago & my computer had to shut down - so hopefully you receive part 1 other wise this post will be confusing - hopefully I didn't lose it before my computer shut down - sorry about that.

 

So as I was saying in the first post that that as far as my personal moral code is - I agree with you almost all the time. But as far as my beliefs go - I always make sure to separate what I believe is true with what I want to believe because it's an easy trap to fall into.

 

Is God real & is the Bible true is one topic

 

& is God an all loving God who loves the human race or is He a God of horror, terror, a raging insane tyrant, a mad scentist is a different topic

 

I always try not to mix the 2 together.

 

In Proverbs 14:12, at least to the best of my understanding, God warns about the danger of people trusting their instincts.

You said that religion causes a lot of wars - I totally agree. Exodus 15:3 says that God is a God of War.

 

Also, there seems to be both a lot of evidence proving the Bible & disproving it.

In Thessalonians 2:11 God talks about putting a delusion on the world so that they can't see the truth.

 

So even though there may be evidence proving evolution, it may be fake evidence that God places there to put the world under a delusion.

 

Anyway, I can go on & on - just like science when every time scientists discover something & find an answer, they also find more complexities & more questions. The more you read the Bible, the more complex it gets.

 

I know these beliefs are not popular - it's probably why most people don't believe it - they don't want to.

 

Can I be wrong? Of course - I hope I am wrong for my sake & everyone elses & every one that has passed away - I really wanna be wrong.

[Johnny000000]

Hi Johnny

 

I had to read your thread several time to grasp where you are on this.

You are carrying the weight of the human race on your shoulders. The system that forms our universe is far too complex to be figured out by mere mortals.

 

But it does make for interesting discussion. So here are my 2 cents.

 

I believe the bible was written by man, as a way to unite and control the population. Many of the stories are intriguing, motivating, disturbing, threatening and downright scary. It was well crafted in its vagueness and complexity and many suggested books for the bible were edited from the final copy when it was originally assembled.

 

There are positive and negative forces, call them what you will, that push and pull at our subconscious. You seem to be focused on the negative. 95% of us going to hell because we couldn’t understand the “truth” thrown at us by a preacher in the subway? I don’t accept the point of that. I'd rather look to a comforting end that greets you when you return with a “ You gave it a try, better life next time. Go sit over there and relax for awhile”.

 

Life is a journey we are all travelling and will come to an end someday for all of us. When I look at the variety of the human condition around the world, the one common denominator is the personnel relationships we have with each other.

Put the bible down, stop focusing on being “saved”, take care of yourself, do no harm, help where you can, enjoy the day, love the people you are close to.

 

Best of life to you

 

Bradley

Hey Bradley - how are you?

 

Thank you for your response - I think after I write this post I'm gonna stop discussing this topic because I think people are getting tired of this topic & I don't want to be a killjoy or a Debbie Downer. But I would like to respond to your question.

 

I just want to say that it's not so much carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders - whatever the truth is - it has been what it is long before I was born - & it's not about trying to figure out the universe - I have no interest in figuring out the universe - I didn;t come up with these beliefs - these beliefs have existed that I know of at least since the 1st century - & the first few years they were brought to my attention, I didn't want to believe them - I had actually read the Bible for different reasons and started noticing that the verses starting matching up perfectly with these beliefs.

So really it's not my philosophy.

 

Who wrote the Bible?

 

So many people say that so many times that I decided to examine it & give you my take on it.

When you say that you believe that man wrote the Bible, do you believe it was a small group of men or a lot of men?

Because the Bible is a very long book - other than theologians & maybe Priests & Pastors, I don't think I have ever met anyone else who has claimed to have read the whole Bible. I never read the whole Bible. And not only is it a very long book but it's a slow read. Every sentence makes you stop and think. It's not like reading the news or a magazine & when you read it there are verses all over the Bible in different chapters that go perfectly with other verses in other chapters - how did all of these men communicate with each other to get their facts straight? - especially in a time where they did not have email & cell phones & telephones? The more you read it the more the verses connect with each other. And what are they controlling. I don't think I have ever met anyone personally that I know of who can follow all of God's laws perfectly so if man wrote the Bible to control the world, who did it work on? The only people I can think of who may be able to follow God's laws perfectly are the elect & I'm not sure I have ever met any in my life. I think that they are probably very far & few - if this book was deliberately fabricated by men to control society, why would they say that Jesus knocked over the tables? - I do think that there are people who use the Bible to make money but that's not the message in the Bible. The Bible constantly points out that there are people who claim they are children of God but they aren't. I think that most people are not really familiar with the Bible.

I haven't read the whole Bible but most people, even well educated people, even religious people, even people who say they took a theology course in college don't know a lot of the verses - you mention a verse & they say where does it say that, I never heard that.

Most of the verses in the Bible are too scary to forget so if someone says I never heard that where does it say it in the Bible, I would guess that they may have never read it.

 

Regarding what you were saying about only focusing on the negative forces & not accepting that point.

Hebrews 6:3 explains what I was talking about - most calvinists believe that the Bible is to condemn the non elect - that's why I mentioned the preacher in the subway - yes I know it's a horrible statement to make - I wish I didn't have to make it but it's possible that it may be true.

& I do think it's important to be positive but it's also important to be aware that negativity exists.

You were saying that you would rather look to a comforting end. Me too.

I understand where you are coming from but to refuse a certain belief because I don't like the message & choosing to believe whatever I want to believe - it may work for a while but it won't change what is true or isn't true whatever the truth is whether I'm right or you're right or whoever is right.

 

There are about 7 billion people in this world & sooner or later almost all of them will have a philosophy of what they think life is about - but where will it get you? I know people that believe that God forgives everyone - I usually say - so are Hitler & Ghandi hanging out together in heaven?

 

Believe me when I tell you, I don't enjoy saying these things to you - on one hand, I agree with you - most of the time I do live my life & do';t think about it but when people pass away, even when I see a famous person pass away, I start wondering.

 

So I don;t want to figure out the universe - I just want to not have to worry about Hell for me or my family or anyone else.

Also - I would say that the one thing it does affect me in my life is that I will never start a family - not because I have anything against people starting a family but because I would never want there to be any possibility that this fate can await them.

 

I already am puzzled by people starting families because once you are created, it's guaranteed that you will eventually die - even if you live to be 130 years old & have the greatest life anyone could wish for, eventually you will age & die, that's if you're lucky enough to live a long life - if you think about it, it's crazy - most of us spend our whole lives working our asses off to make a better life for us & the people we love but in the end where does it get you? Think about how fast this year went. It wasn't even a blink - 20 more of these and you're 20 years older - it;s crazy - add to that a book about 2,000 years old that explains in detail how most of the world is going to Hell & the only thing we really can do for peace of mind is to refuse to believe it & hope we're right.

 

So I would say that it's crazy to start a family - life is dangerous enough as it is - so many things can go wrong - on top of that we don't need to put our loveones in the hands a scary God.

 

He created the food chain - it may not seem like a big deal to us because we are on top of the food chain but we all know that being an animal in the wild is a hell on earth - God designed that even though he could have created an easier way - we have a scary God.

 

I wrote this post off the top of my head. I hope I didn't offend you in any way - I'm just trying to make sure I'm not going into denial. I want to be as accurate as possible & I am not trying to start a debate. Thank you so much for your post - I respect your views.

 

And yes - I believe in enjoying life but because death is a serious matter - I would say enjoy life & live it to the fullest - just don't have any kids or if you do have kids, don't have anymore kids.

 

Have a good weekend & thanks again for your post.